× Trails 越野路徑

Lets build the trails.....

10 years 2 months ago #724 by Crash
Replied by Crash on topic Lets build the trails.....
Im with Launchpad, lets get building some awesome trails that everyone will be challenged by and enjoy...

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10 years 2 months ago #723 by launchpad
Replied by launchpad on topic Lets build the trails.....
Hi Julian

There is a group of us that would really like to help build a Great DH course in Hong Kong we have the expertise to build stuff and more inportantly the skill to ride it.... at the end of the day there is some excellent cross country riding in Hong Kong but has anyone looked around to see that there is so many people riding full DH rigs here and there is really no where to ride..... a really DH track should has all skill from drops to jumps (gaps tabletops) to skinnies and so narly section as well (well we have some of those already)

Charging down the mountain a full speed is fun for the first few runs but MTBing is a discipline of skill just what Hill. Minaar and Pete , thats what we need to be trying to achieve.....

This game we play with AFCD where they put something up to stop us we break it down, they put a sign up we take it ..... well you get my idea is now getting a bit old, you show em a way we can get them to listen and make a course that appeals to all skills levels then we are there

I hope that we can get this sorted out as we have one of the most beautiful places to build so awesome tracks...

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10 years 6 months ago #426 by julien
Replied by julien on topic Lets build the trails.....
Launch Pad -
it's not said we will obtain all what we want. But we will fight for it.

AFCD have issues and concerns and we are trying to bring solutions that pleases both sides.

As a matter of fact we have been asked to sort the erosion problems. So, we are not going to make all Ho Pui a full-on DH track (BTW, we have projects for a real DH track, if you're interested to participate and review the project let us know).

We are pushing for new sections packed with experimental erosion control solutions that would be fun to ride. A simple lateral drainage ditch can make a good drop off, a set of double jumps can create a channel for running water to flow off the trail thread.
Banked corners allow rider to brake less before a curve and decrease the erosion. The AFCD so far like these ideas.

One of AFCD's imperatives is to keep riders on track so they wont make short cuts or ride former section. We've explained them and they understood that Ho Pui new section must remain challenging so riders will remain on the designated MTB track.
They know what happens when building unappropriated solutions: no one rides it. Look at the "official Route Twisk trail head" - it's all steps that they've designed on purpose not to be ridden, as a result everyone kept accessing the trail through the road bend! That's exactly the kind of situations they want to avoid by working with us. Let's hope this effort will carry through!

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10 years 6 months ago #424 by bob.smith
Replied by bob.smith on topic Lets build the trails.....
All good points.

The park managers have their objectives and the park users have theirs. In our case the objectives are better MTB trails.

But like anything in our lives there are conditions to getting what we want. We follow rules and abide by laws everyday. For one thing these land areas are "Country Parks". In most counties national park systems have very stick rules about usage and most certainly about MTBing. I have been involved advocacy for many years and I can tell you for sure it is not an instant or easy process to get trails open.

Government entities here, or anywhere else for that matter, aren't going to come running to mountain bikers asking us to let them open more trails. It is up to us to be proactive and work within the process. And the good news is, there is a process and success is possible. I for one can tell you it sure isn't easy but it is available.

Your right the park mangers do not know how to build sustainable mountain bike trails. They openly admit this. And outside the HKMBA they don't even have access to the information. So they are also in a quandary. But this quandary is our opportunity as we do know what a proper MTB trail is or have access to the experts who do.

16 years ago the HKMBA opened it's doors by a gentleman named Rick Barton Smith. At that time ALL trails in HK were illegal. He and his volunteers worked with AFCD and CEDD to get quite a few trails opened. He and his merry band worked quite hard to accomplish this but the point is Hong Kong went from Zero trials to many being opened. Now I will be the first to admit that what are called mountain bike trails here in HK is a bit sketchy. But the point is it did and can work. I think 16 years ago no one really understood the many implications of sustainable trails. The simple fact is without the work of people like yourself who have given selflessly for the good of all riders the sport of MTBing in HK would be non existent or certainly ALL underground.

At this juncture we have the ear of AFCD. They want our help, they want to alleviate the problems we all face. They have heard our explanations as to why the current trail system is not the most advantageous and I believe they sincerely want to do something about it.

But even in the best case it takes time. They must take into consideration such things as budget, other users views and wishes, flora, villages near by etc. In other words issues that would pertain to opening up any new trial in any public park in the civilized world.

Lets face it we live in a world of rules. The interest of the many out weighs the desires of a few. Do we just barrel through all obstacles when you are at work or driving your car on the road. Of course not. So instead of us complaining that the government should do something about our trails, instead I propose we take a constructive approach and see if we can make changes for the long term. If we put our collective energies into making something happen legally, something positive will occur.

I propose we give direct communication and proactive actions a try. They worked once and they can work again. If we move for conflict, it is conflict the government will give us and nothing will ever get done. Not to mention they have the law on their side.

If we approach them with respect and understanding and constructive solutions we will stand a much better chance of getting trails for ourselves and for riders after us.

If you would like to help HKMBA with this please feel free to jump on in. As for the time constraints we all have, well if we all give just a bit of our time “collectively” we can create positive change and the bottom line, get more trails.

“let us be a part of the solution not a part of the problem”

Bob Smith

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10 years 6 months ago #422 by launchpad
Replied by launchpad on topic Lets build the trails.....
Hi Julian

Thanks for the update all sounds fantastic just a few questions I am sure everyone is asking.

#1 when will this be started, are you going to be able to be able get through the red tape with the suggestion of jumps , I dont think AFD will like that.

#2 The trail sounds great but is there going to be a diverse degree of trail difficulty, what i mean is that whenever the trail is changed the difficult section are changed so they become easy ,maybe the view should be that you make alternate routes so that you cater for all riders, being one of the faster Dh riders in HK I hope that you do not remove or change some of the better DH tracks, the rock drop at the top of TMS is a good exsample of this as it has been made to still be difficult but the landing now is far safer giving more people the chance to ride it but its still and big rock drop...... please we need to make sure that all groups of MTBers DH, X country , freeriders are all taken into consideration TMS is really the only DH tracks in HK and we don't want it changed into a X country curcuit and all the hard, echniacal and fast routes destroyed....

#3 The landslide dont change it its not difficult just has that impression how about a alternate route which is ridable over the top I like the idea of a skinny but it cant we wider than 20cm and the it still needs to have the drop off to make it fun (AFD will NEVER agree to th I know)......

#4 If you need help I can find many guys to chip in as we are still going to do work with or without AFD approval as we are MTBers and we want to make HK (our home) a great place to ride

Cheers Launchpad

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10 years 6 months ago #419 by Crash
Replied by Crash on topic Lets build the trails.....
Insurance to use tools....? call me stupid, but isnt riding the bikes the dangerous bit??

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10 years 6 months ago - 10 years 6 months ago #365 by julien
Replied by julien on topic Lets build the trails.....
If only volunteer work was allowed by AFCD!
AFCD can't insure volunteer workers operating tools - this is THE problem.
How to get around it? Maybe setting up a non profit company that insure the volunteers and that the AFCD subcontract.

The HKMBA (with me involved) is – right now – talking with Tai Lam Country park about the Ho Pui trail.

Tal Lam park management have actually requested us to propose solutions against erosion on the Ho Pui trail. They want to make something happen quick because the trail is in a bad shape. So we are jumping on the opportunity to make something nicer to ride for DHers.

Here is the summary of what we've told them - we're currently making a former proposal so please make your comments quick!

Brand new trail section
We've talked with them about a brand new trail that would bypass the very eroded steep section above the dam. The section would be made for mountain biking: Switch-backs, berms on curves, jumps, alternative line to access bigger obstacles.

New Route Twisk Trail Head
We are also proposing many modification along the trail from the very top (Route Twisk). Starting by a new trail head, with a dedicated single track with large banked curves avoiding the steep very rutted trail start.

Fixing Kap Lung Hair Pin and ruts following
AFCD needs to fix the steep section following Kap Leng forest trail connection.

Skinny bridge over the land slide
We are proposing a series of "skinnies " to access and go over the landslide. (shinnies are narrow bridges). They would be fun to ride and prevent pedestrians to enter the "Landslide" (This is AFCD's concern about it).

New twisty start for Ho Pui DH track
We would like to see an alternative to the track's first section: a more curvy trail with banked corners. We would keep some jumps here. The aim is to fight erosion on this section.

New section with switch-backs
I've talked above about re-routing the section. Why rerouting? Because the section is too damaged to be fixed for riding. This new section would link up the beginning of the steep section and land near the "stream crossing" of the track's lower section. We've got ideas for an "expert line" with a BIG drop off there. It would completely bypass the "platform" situated above the dam's picnic area.

Erosion control
We are proposing to install anti-erosion water drainage all along the trail.
We need to fix the huge ruts that formed in the rocky sections.

Trail Finish
We're thinking of aligning the power line drop off with a better angle and follow the landing by a series of banked curves that would lead to the terraces gaps side ways, making these terraces possible to be jumped.

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10 years 6 months ago #348 by ernstbarkmann
Replied by ernstbarkmann on topic Lets build the trails.....
i wanna join, i used to build some small stuff on trails and clear the disturbing vegetation along the trails. i think it will be more effective to work together!!
let me in!
contact me!
my msn: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.,
i speak both chinese and english...and i'm not worry abt get caught on sundays..:p

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10 years 6 months ago - 10 years 6 months ago #345 by launchpad
Lets build the trails..... was created by launchpad
How about doing what we do already, there is a group of us that goes out once a month with shovels, picks and other useful equiment and actually fix, repair and build the trails we all ride every day.

We all realise how big MTB has become but nobody is ready to get there hands dirty...... if you speak to people around the world in place where MTB is encouraged (ie northshore BC) the trails are not build by the goverment ( they dont discourage it like HK) but by the MTB comunity, reality AFD's not going to agree with us and its like hitting your head aginst a brick wall, we are happy to get up and build and fix the trail with or without there approval, at the end of the day lets just do it, all they can try and do is catch us and as we know they give up...

Lets build trail that everyone can enjoy......

PS they want to close down the downhill section to repair it... with what concrete and wooden stairs...... 50 hands and some manual labour could fix it in a day and if it was done by experince MTB it would be a proper MTB track .... for every one to enjoy

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